goblin_insane ([info]goblin_insane) wrote,
@ 2008-05-16 15:13:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Lisbon Treaty
Can people convince me why I should vote "no" in the Lisbon treaty referendum?

(21 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]my_name_is_fiki
2008-05-16 03:02 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm,
I'd take the other side of the arument. I've yet to be told why I should vote "yes".

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Vote online at www.FreeEurope.info
(Anonymous)
2008-05-18 09:47 am UTC (link)
Free Europe Constitution is better than the Treaty:
1. You can read it.
2. All Europeans can vote about it.
Vote YES or NO at www.FreeEurope.info

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-16 03:22 pm UTC (link)
Read, learn:

http://www.lisbontreaty2008.ie/

It's the referendum committee website - so just the facts.

Personally, I'm inclined to vote yes. There's nothing really to justify the ooga-booga stuff that the crazies have been jumping up and down about.

P.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]my_name_is_fiki
2008-05-16 03:43 pm UTC (link)
While I have actual problem with the Treaty as I don't actually think it will add or take away from what happens here anyway (We already ignore the EU when we want. VAT and VRT being two major examples), I do have a problem with the fact that we are the only (though I though some one else was too) country actually allowed to have a vote on it. I have an inherent distrust of something like that being forced through with no process involving the majority of those effected by it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]the_crapple
2008-05-16 03:52 pm UTC (link)
That's due to the differing laws of those Nations, rather than because of the Treaty

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]my_name_is_fiki
2008-05-16 03:53 pm UTC (link)
I understand that, but in the past a majority of countries have been given the opportunity to say no. This time they are not. Makes little difference though as the we'll just have multiple referendums until we pass it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-16 04:00 pm UTC (link)
In every other member state, the Treaty has to be ratified by the parliament. Unless you're saying that the parliaments of the other EU nations aren't representative?

P.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]my_name_is_fiki
2008-05-16 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Well I know our parliament would pass it by a majority of about 85% or more. I doubt very very much that it will pass by that percentage from a public vote.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2008-05-16 04:14 pm UTC (link)
That's true - but it's different to saying that it's being "forced through with no process involving the majority of those affected by it".

There is a process - that of parliamentary democracy.

Now whether that's enough of a process is another question, I'll grant you. I'm happy that Ireland is getting a chance to decide by referendum, rather than a parliamentary vote.

But I don't like the suggestion that the Treaty is being imposed on the other EU countries without their say so, when that's just not true.


P.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]irirshmadcat
2008-05-16 06:33 pm UTC (link)
Poland were having a bit of a spate in Parliment and the old Goverment party which had been kicked out threathen to force a refurendum to piss of the goverment. Think it it gone through but not sure.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]the_crapple
2008-05-16 03:47 pm UTC (link)
From looking at the site I can't really see any drawback for signing the Treaty, as we get to keep our insane 'opt out' options, while it limits the power that Germany and France have.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]my_name_is_fiki
2008-05-16 04:12 pm UTC (link)
Tbh, the only major drawback is that we lose a Commissioner. I know that we will cycle through and get an equal share at the the positions, but it means we are fundamentally unrepresented at the commission for 5 of every 15 years.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]ulaire_daidoji
2008-05-16 05:28 pm UTC (link)
Actually it all fundamentally means that we are fairly represented as opposed to now where we are grossly over-represented.

(as I understand it and as both the Yes and No camps have agreed on air) The treaty if ratified will mean that every citizen has equal representation in the European parliament. The NO camp say "what's wrong with things now, it's just like the USA where you have states like Oklahoma (Bugger all people) with equal representaion to states like California (8th biggest economy on the planet) cause it works for the USA...."

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]dundragon
2008-05-16 04:59 pm UTC (link)
God will kill kittens

(Reply to this)


[info]ulaire_daidoji
2008-05-16 05:39 pm UTC (link)
Don't vote no because the only people telling you to vote no are SF and a bunch of shady folks called Libertas.

Shadiness discussed here: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

Indeymedia.ie and Politics.ie seem to be having a bit of a feud so it's hard to tell who to believe...

Also the vast majority of people I've talked to haven't a clue what Lisbon is about at all and are voting NO as a stick to beat the government with. They see Lisbon as a vote on Healrth, transport etc etc. Which flies in the face of everything I believe in, So I'm going to vote yes to counter at least one of those gombeens out ;)

(Reply to this)


[info]ocultado
2008-05-17 10:09 am UTC (link)
You should vote no because otherwise:

You will be forced to have an abortion. Daily. This will be very uncomfortable for men.
Any children you do have will be used for some kind of unknown scary research.
We'll all have to become neo-liberalists. Whatever that means.
All our men will be sent to war. They will be part of an elite team of Stormtroopers, and will be immediately killed by a callous overlord.
There will be a callous overlord.
Random strangers in europe will pee on our constitution.
Furriners will be allowed into our country. Where they'll do obscene things like "spend money" and "pay taxes", as opposed to when the Irish went to other countries and politely stayed under the radar.
People *died* for you, and now you're going to dance on their graves, you ungrateful fecker.

See www.voteno.ie and www.lisbontreaty.ie for my sources. Under no circumstances are you allowed check those facts against, say, the actual treaty. If you try to confirm the facts on those websites, then you are obviously some kind of communist, and will be thrown out of the country.

(Reply to this) (Thread)
no
(Anonymous)
2008-05-31 06:40 pm UTC (link)
thanks for that I belong to the FREE IRISH. I will vote no

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: no
[info]ocultado
2008-05-31 07:39 pm UTC (link)
Good to hear - exercising your democratic right is important. Well done. Make sure you check the register to find out where to vote and when.

(Reply to this) (Parent)
Re: no
[info]goblin_insane
2008-06-01 04:03 am UTC (link)
there is nothing I hate more then people who don't sign their comments its cowardly. Normally I would just delete this.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
Re: no
[info]ocultado
2008-06-01 11:11 pm UTC (link)
I can't decide if it's a cowardly friend of yours, or just generic spam. Given that we live in a democracy, I'm not entirely sure why they're "Free" Irish. As opposed to what? If you want to delete my responses I won't be offended - I'd delete it if it was on my LJ too.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]ocultado
2008-05-31 07:48 pm UTC (link)
Well done - you have your own troll! Pity it doesn't realise that for the freeeurope thing to work the Lisbon Treaty has to be ratified first in order for a million citizens to "take the initiative of inviting the European Commission, within the framework of its powers, to submit any appropriate proposal on matters where citizens consider that a legal act of the Union is required for the purpose of implementing the Treaties."

Ah well.

(Reply to this)

(21 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…