While I have actual problem with the Treaty as I don't actually think it will add or take away from what happens here anyway (We already ignore the EU when we want. VAT and VRT being two major examples), I do have a problem with the fact that we are the only (though I though some one else was too) country actually allowed to have a vote on it. I have an inherent distrust of something like that being forced through with no process involving the majority of those effected by it.
I understand that, but in the past a majority of countries have been given the opportunity to say no. This time they are not. Makes little difference though as the we'll just have multiple referendums until we pass it.
In every other member state, the Treaty has to be ratified by the parliament. Unless you're saying that the parliaments of the other EU nations aren't representative?
Well I know our parliament would pass it by a majority of about 85% or more. I doubt very very much that it will pass by that percentage from a public vote.
That's true - but it's different to saying that it's being "forced through with no process involving the majority of those affected by it".
There is a process - that of parliamentary democracy.
Now whether that's enough of a process is another question, I'll grant you. I'm happy that Ireland is getting a chance to decide by referendum, rather than a parliamentary vote.
But I don't like the suggestion that the Treaty is being imposed on the other EU countries without their say so, when that's just not true.
Poland were having a bit of a spate in Parliment and the old Goverment party which had been kicked out threathen to force a refurendum to piss of the goverment. Think it it gone through but not sure.
From looking at the site I can't really see any drawback for signing the Treaty, as we get to keep our insane 'opt out' options, while it limits the power that Germany and France have.
Tbh, the only major drawback is that we lose a Commissioner. I know that we will cycle through and get an equal share at the the positions, but it means we are fundamentally unrepresented at the commission for 5 of every 15 years.
Actually it all fundamentally means that we are fairly represented as opposed to now where we are grossly over-represented.
(as I understand it and as both the Yes and No camps have agreed on air) The treaty if ratified will mean that every citizen has equal representation in the European parliament. The NO camp say "what's wrong with things now, it's just like the USA where you have states like Oklahoma (Bugger all people) with equal representaion to states like California (8th biggest economy on the planet) cause it works for the USA...."
Indeymedia.ie and Politics.ie seem to be having a bit of a feud so it's hard to tell who to believe...
Also the vast majority of people I've talked to haven't a clue what Lisbon is about at all and are voting NO as a stick to beat the government with. They see Lisbon as a vote on Healrth, transport etc etc. Which flies in the face of everything I believe in, So I'm going to vote yes to counter at least one of those gombeens out ;)
You will be forced to have an abortion. Daily. This will be very uncomfortable for men. Any children you do have will be used for some kind of unknown scary research. We'll all have to become neo-liberalists. Whatever that means. All our men will be sent to war. They will be part of an elite team of Stormtroopers, and will be immediately killed by a callous overlord. There will be a callous overlord. Random strangers in europe will pee on our constitution. Furriners will be allowed into our country. Where they'll do obscene things like "spend money" and "pay taxes", as opposed to when the Irish went to other countries and politely stayed under the radar. People *died* for you, and now you're going to dance on their graves, you ungrateful fecker.
See www.voteno.ie and www.lisbontreaty.ie for my sources. Under no circumstances are you allowed check those facts against, say, the actual treaty. If you try to confirm the facts on those websites, then you are obviously some kind of communist, and will be thrown out of the country.
I can't decide if it's a cowardly friend of yours, or just generic spam. Given that we live in a democracy, I'm not entirely sure why they're "Free" Irish. As opposed to what? If you want to delete my responses I won't be offended - I'd delete it if it was on my LJ too.
Well done - you have your own troll! Pity it doesn't realise that for the freeeurope thing to work the Lisbon Treaty has to be ratified first in order for a million citizens to "take the initiative of inviting the European Commission, within the framework of its powers, to submit any appropriate proposal on matters where citizens consider that a legal act of the Union is required for the purpose of implementing the Treaties."
![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif?v=92.1){kind=small}
goblin_insane) wrote,
May 16 2008, 15:02:32 UTC 4 years ago
I'd take the other side of the arument. I've yet to be told why I should vote "yes".
Anonymous
May 18 2008, 09:47:39 UTC 4 years ago
Vote online at www.FreeEurope.info
Free Europe Constitution is better than the Treaty:1. You can read it.
2. All Europeans can vote about it.
Vote YES or NO at www.FreeEurope.info
Anonymous
May 16 2008, 15:22:24 UTC 4 years ago
http://www.lisbontreaty2008.ie/
It's the referendum committee website - so just the facts.
Personally, I'm inclined to vote yes. There's nothing really to justify the ooga-booga stuff that the crazies have been jumping up and down about.
P.
May 16 2008, 15:43:59 UTC 4 years ago
May 16 2008, 15:52:04 UTC 4 years ago
May 16 2008, 15:53:26 UTC 4 years ago
Anonymous
May 16 2008, 16:00:19 UTC 4 years ago
P.
May 16 2008, 16:04:26 UTC 4 years ago
Anonymous
May 16 2008, 16:14:10 UTC 4 years ago
There is a process - that of parliamentary democracy.
Now whether that's enough of a process is another question, I'll grant you. I'm happy that Ireland is getting a chance to decide by referendum, rather than a parliamentary vote.
But I don't like the suggestion that the Treaty is being imposed on the other EU countries without their say so, when that's just not true.
P.
May 16 2008, 18:33:20 UTC 4 years ago
May 16 2008, 15:47:42 UTC 4 years ago
May 16 2008, 16:12:17 UTC 4 years ago
May 16 2008, 17:28:53 UTC 4 years ago
(as I understand it and as both the Yes and No camps have agreed on air) The treaty if ratified will mean that every citizen has equal representation in the European parliament. The NO camp say "what's wrong with things now, it's just like the USA where you have states like Oklahoma (Bugger all people) with equal representaion to states like California (8th biggest economy on the planet) cause it works for the USA...."
May 16 2008, 16:59:35 UTC 4 years ago
May 16 2008, 17:39:17 UTC 4 years ago
Shadiness discussed here: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/873
Indeymedia.ie and Politics.ie seem to be having a bit of a feud so it's hard to tell who to believe...
Also the vast majority of people I've talked to haven't a clue what Lisbon is about at all and are voting NO as a stick to beat the government with. They see Lisbon as a vote on Healrth, transport etc etc. Which flies in the face of everything I believe in, So I'm going to vote yes to counter at least one of those gombeens out ;)
May 17 2008, 10:09:19 UTC 4 years ago
You will be forced to have an abortion. Daily. This will be very uncomfortable for men.
Any children you do have will be used for some kind of unknown scary research.
We'll all have to become neo-liberalists. Whatever that means.
All our men will be sent to war. They will be part of an elite team of Stormtroopers, and will be immediately killed by a callous overlord.
There will be a callous overlord.
Random strangers in europe will pee on our constitution.
Furriners will be allowed into our country. Where they'll do obscene things like "spend money" and "pay taxes", as opposed to when the Irish went to other countries and politely stayed under the radar.
People *died* for you, and now you're going to dance on their graves, you ungrateful fecker.
See www.voteno.ie and www.lisbontreaty.ie for my sources. Under no circumstances are you allowed check those facts against, say, the actual treaty. If you try to confirm the facts on those websites, then you are obviously some kind of communist, and will be thrown out of the country.
Anonymous
May 31 2008, 18:40:22 UTC 3 years ago
no
thanks for that I belong to the FREE IRISH. I will vote noMay 31 2008, 19:39:46 UTC 3 years ago
Re: no
Good to hear - exercising your democratic right is important. Well done. Make sure you check the register to find out where to vote and when.June 1 2008, 04:03:08 UTC 3 years ago
Re: no
there is nothing I hate more then people who don't sign their comments its cowardly. Normally I would just delete this.June 1 2008, 23:11:44 UTC 3 years ago
Re: no
I can't decide if it's a cowardly friend of yours, or just generic spam. Given that we live in a democracy, I'm not entirely sure why they're "Free" Irish. As opposed to what? If you want to delete my responses I won't be offended - I'd delete it if it was on my LJ too.May 31 2008, 19:48:44 UTC 3 years ago
Ah well.